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The Scientist: NewsBlog:
When does oversight overstep?
Posted by Jef Akst [Entry posted at 16th November 2009 07:23 PM GMT]
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Return to Top comment: Value for the money by Dawne Shelton [Comment posted 2010-01-20 13:59:29] With regards to the idea of taxpayers wanting some "value for their money", I'd like to point out that a grant is money to pursue a plausible research idea/hypothesis, usually by several different methods/aims. If the money is spent on further research which shows the original hypothesis/idea is false or improbable, then the remainder of the money should not be spent on a dead hypothesis. This is one of they key reasons that researchers shift their research. This is not waste. Shifting the direction of research is often a mechanism of following the positive data. It would be more wasteful to continue spending the grant money on a hypothesis that has proven faulty. And this is certainly nothing like spending the money on a BMW. Return to Top comment: None of their business? by David Jensen [Comment posted 2009-11-24 22:23:52] Given the difficult state of governmental finances, most responsible citizens expect concrete results from activities financed with their dollars. How the money is spent is certainly their business.
If researchers accept public money, they should expect to be measured publicly. Return to Top comment: When does oversight overstep? by Fred Schaufele [Comment posted 2009-11-18 11:37:11] I agree with Terry. There is a difference between a research grant (emphasis on project supported) and a research fellowship (emphasis on individual supported). I am pleased that the NIH actually supports a hybrid of those two activities since it allows us to pursue the inevitable, more insteresting tangents that come out of our studies. One could argue that, for five year grants, such flexibility is prudent and that an agency would be wasting funds in demanding a strict adherence to the original goal.
Despite the positive attributes of the NIH model, we should not expect that all agnecies adhere to that. If I were granted, or contracted, funds to pursue a specific line of research that was peer reviewed and deemed an appropriate way for the agency to spend those funds, then I must follow that line of work. That is even true for NIH funding. How to remain true to the completion of the orginal goals of a thoroughly vetted project while maintaining innovation is one component of effective PI management. When faced with a new and exciting direction, the role of the PI is to find the ways to make that happen IN ADDITION to the original goals. The PI should be evaluating personnel and projects to ensure that all can be done within budget. Most of the time, the PI should be immediately thinking 'new grant proposal' as this represents not only a research opportunity but a funding opportunity. If the argument is that the project is not sufficiently developed for funding, then I think that answers the original question about why some agencies, like CIRM, take a dim view on jettisoning the original study Aims for the new direction. Return to Top comment: When is a change in direction OK? by Terry Iorns [Comment posted 2009-11-17 14:06:48] Part of the job of research scientists is to sell their ideas to granting agencies to obtain research grants. When you get the grant, what is the obligation to pursue the original intent of the application?
When an agency comes up with a pot of gold, whether it be from taxpayers or other sources, the natural tendency is to chase it. However, in this case, the agency had a fundamental charter to advance human embryonic stem cell research. When there is such a charter, I think it is good policy to have considerable oversight. A fundamental question that should be asked, is, would the agency have funded the research if the new direction was actually the primary direction in the application? If the research goes off on a tangent that is of no interest to the agency's charter, it should be cancelled! Consider the example of a researcher applying for a grant to a pharmaceutical corporation to look into drug targets in a specific therapeutic area. If the researcher finds something interesting that may have application in polymer chemistry, should the drug company be expected to support that research. I say no. I agree with others in the areas of be able to pursue serendipity and whether proper terms of oversight were apparent to the researcher, but I don't think getting the grant is a blank check to do any kind of research. I see no difference in using the funds to pursue unrelated research and using the funds to buy a BMW. Return to Top comment: When does it overstep? by Anand Rajan KD [Comment posted 2009-11-17 13:33:45] Oversight: - the act of introducing management 'theory' into science.
If you, as an overseer, can provide oversight over a project - i.e., get a sense of where things are headed before they actually happen - why do the project at all? 'Taxpayer money' is just an euphemism for people to poke their nose into what is not their business in the first place. If at all - like the previous poster noted - there can be financial administrative oversight. You can look out for any scientist buying a BMW with his grant money, but if he is doing experiments with the money you gave him, where is the problem? In general, what is the meaning of scientific oversight? It seems, to be an oxymoron. If taxpayers were actually made to sit down and listen to all the inconsequential data and minutae their 'taxpayer money' has produced, all research would come to a grinding halt. Remember the literal meaning of the word 'academic'? Return to Top comment: Value for Taxpayers by David Jensen [Comment posted 2009-11-17 12:52:51] A central question in this discussion is whether the expenditures by the NIH and the California stem cell agency generate genuine value for taxpayers. Of course, there is the question of what is meant by value.
I think it is fair to say that that most taxpayers generally expect a concrete result that has real impact on their lives. However, I am not sure researchers agree that is the primary mission of either NIH or CIRM. More than one observer has commented about a sense of entitlement in California on the part of researchers. I suspect that many scientists also view the NIH as their creature. You can read more about the affairs in California at the California Stem Cell Report -- californiastemcellreport.blogspot.com. Return to Top comment: Excuse me by Rafaela Canete-Soler [Comment posted 2009-11-17 07:33:56] Dear author, I agree with the **theoretical** arguments described in this article. I am not in California and my knowledge of the CIRM tale is limited to what has been reported at The Scientist and California Stem Cell Report. It appears as if the issues are: 1. Is oversight a fundamental requirement for competitive public science? Why is oversight so important? 2. How I am going to oversight? 3. What if oversight does not work? What are my resorts and resources?. It sounds like I am preparing an R01. I will not send one more application because the chances are that I will be either triaged or deemed not competitive for funding at this time (blah, blah, blah). Instead, I am going to elaborate (contest) on the comments of my reviewers: Mr X, from Consumer Watchdog, writes: It is critical to ** not asleep at the switch. CIRM is functioning as both a grant making agency [and] also something of a steward of the funds it hands out**. Yes Consumer Watchdog. You?re absolutely right but if you don?t ** make your intentions explicit from the get-go**, your oversight cannot be **outstanding**. Neither innovative nor efficient but unfair. Because ambiguity does not help. It may well help ?MORE OF THE SAME? to keep going. Dr A from Case Western Reserve University: **This proposal on Oversight is a terrific idea. The problem with that kind of a system is that you can be too intrusive. That eliminates that kind of serendipity [in scientific discovery].**. Dr A, would you consider **too intrusive** the following case: 1. Departmental and School space coordinators arrive one day to your lab saying that you?re moving to the space of your senior colleague PI, who is also moving to a much smaller space, but you will have your own bench. You find out that your official **mentor** is in that School Space Committee which, by the way, is an undisclosed arbitrarily membership selected committee that has not had the approval of the full department?. Would you consider too intrusive taking away your lab space without any prior discussion?. Would you consider the event coincidental if, in your previous Summary statement, one of the reviewers had questioned whether you really had your own lab space? (in your grant application it was clearly described your lab space and resources) 2. While writing your grant application, to be sent in a week, your senior colleague PI comes and asks: **Listen did you withdraw your grant application?**. No, I did not, who said that?. **Go and ask Y, Division Chief. He?s been at the Departmental Business Office and said that, in the computer, it looks like you withdrew your application?. I did not ask Y because I knew, from years of experience trying to understand him, what his methods and approaches were about. He could have asked me directly but this is not his way. I simply called my SRA and asked for an explanation. Obviously, my SRA did not have a clue of what was going on, neither did I and I continued writing my application. Dr A, I will not go on with examples. I consider these to be examples of intrusive and deliberate harassment. These are facts and a consequence of impaired oversight, promoted by the power and influence of multimillion NIH dollars that sustain high salaries of senior researcher administrators. Dr B, University of California San Francisco writes: ** such vigilance can imply a lack of trust that "is really important to the progress of science," said Yamamoto. "If the penalty [to not meeting specific goals] is to take [the money] away, the agency [is basically saying] 'We don't really trust you.**. Great comments Dr B, except that you have forgotten the premise in which your statement should be based, COMPETITIVENESS. The Peer review system, based on competition, awards public money to the best proposition(s) of scientific objectives and attainable results by researchers. How do we know that those objectives are being achieved over time?. In the sports world, players are competitively judged and rewarded in the public arena and by their public performance. They are not penalized when they do not reach the finals; they are penalized when they break the rules of competition (cheat). In the scientific arena, that judgment is restricted to a very limited sector of the scientific community (reviewers of research reports and publications in any specific area). The public trusts scientific agencies (government or private) and their administrators to ensure that their money is productively used for the public good. They are not legislators but they have received a ?delegate? government function (from the public) that should transpire good judgment and a timely introduction of improvement/corrective measures when funding priorities and research objectives are not met. It seems very clear and laudable to me that the three CIRM researchers have reacted like good citizens and outstanding scientists. They did a great job but did not reach the finals. They could have not been penalized because they had not cheated. They were requested to come back for next tournament. (That is my understanding on the assumption that the rules were clear: 10 years for the best job). Dr L from University of California San Diego writes: ** "I think any agency confronts this problem," "You want to have enough oversight [to ensure] that people make progress during the term of the grant, but you also want to leave room for changes of direction that make sense given what you discover**. Dr L, I totally agree and I would add that there are almost always contingencies that arise and could have not been anticipated. That?s how science appears to work most of the time. A good oversight system ought to provide ways to overcome those contingencies on the researcher?s provision of a rigorously defined plan. But you know Dr L, you are the last reviewer and your vote does not count!. Thank you. PS. a) The events described here are part of a true story. Since I believe that perfection does not exist, I feel happy about my contributions to academic science. But, in no way, I desire to do science any longer as I had done in the past. I am raising my voice as an expression of a personal commitment to help prevent undesirable, yet avoidable experiences in academic science. I agree that termination should be last resort. Universities ought to hear that. b) The Scientist had deleted this message because reviewers are by definition pseudonyms and we cannot give away names when describing work experiences. Comment on this blog |